Polls I have checked agree that a small majority of Americans support some student loan forgiveness, but the percentage in favor declines as the amount forgiven inclines, such as this one conducted by left-lurching NPR. https://www.npr.org/2022/06/17/1104920545/poll-student-loan-forgiveness
Here’s a key paragraph:
“A majority of the general public (55%) supports forgiving up to $10,000 of a person’s federal student loan debt. But the more generous the relief, the less support.
Total student loan debt is $1.75 trillion. That is almost the national gross product of Spain, $1.9 trillion.
Did the 41% know that figure? Did they understand when the slate is wiped clean the debt does not vanish like smoke from a compfire? It is transferred from the students who borrowed money to taxpayers who did not.
Whatever.
It is no surprise that the majority of people like free stuff. It is a surprise that they don’t realize that nothing the government gives them is free. The government is bribing you with your own money — if you are in a privileged class, students in this case. As some say, if you rob Peter to pay Paul, you won’t hear Paul complain.
So the Biden Administration can claim the “majority” of American people approved of the bribe student loan forgiveness, but I think they are missing something.
When the Supreme Court reversed Roe vs Wade, I speculated that this would help Democratic candidates. So far it has.
Why?
The people most likely to get off their asses and do something are people with a grievance — the pro-choice people, mostly (not entirely) Democrats. The people who won their 50-year effort to overturn Roe breathed a sigh of relief. They won, they are happy, they are less likely to be flocking to the polls.
The Supreme Court decision lit a spark in Democrats, who had been on life support. They feared a Red Wave in November. Now it may be a Red Trickle.
As to student debt forgiveness: while a majority favor it, the minority which does not favor it are unhappy. They feel cheated and are strongly motivated to come out and vote against candidates who favor endless giveaways.
The student loan giveaway will energize moderates and conservatives.
That’s my hunch. What’s yours?
It may. But not for me. I find the wholesale forgiveness of loans that perhaps should never have been made to be majorly irritating. Many of these loans were made to scam institutions that were never stopped from fleecing these students or the government for years. Many of them were made to students who studied subjects that would never have resulted in a meaningful job. That’s on the feds and we will ultimately shoulder that. Add to that, the fact that some of these borrowers did not adequately research these scam schools or frou-frou majors, there is the issue of personal responsibility. There is a lot of blame to go around for the student debt crisis and shielding people and institutions from the consequences of their stupidity or malfeasance does not bode well for the future of our citizenry. Having said that, it will not sway me to vote for the GQP and that conviction is strengthened every day that they and their cult leader expose what they stand for. I find it annoying in the extreme – if not alarming – that I have to vote for the lesser of two unacceptable choices. But if the choice is between misguided and immoral/evil, I’ll go with the misguided.
Never GQP. Got it.
You went with the misguided. How’s that working out for the American people.
Stealing and killing my parents taught me were evil and immoral. Democrats run on abortion and redistribution of wealth. Who’s side is immoral.
Hey there freeze,
As always, a very cogent post. But Daniel and Anthony are lost causes.
All they know how to do is to denigrate others opinions, make anti-Democrat pronouncements, and repeat themselves. No point in trying to engage them in a conversation that asks for evidence, fact or logic. Don’t aggravate yourself.
You have not rebutted any of my post. You know you are wrong.
HAPPY WEDNESDAY !!!
Wanda,
I sure hope that you are retired. With the litle knowledge ( sic ) that you are not passing along here, you would be / have been a detriment to our educational system.
You and your ilk continue to ‘one line’ us – mostly me when we try to point out the obvious.
I don’t know of anyone on this blog that went out and got a MAGA tattoo. On the other hand, I’m just a little bit concerned about you dims.
You, oh educated one, ( HA ) will vote dim, because as you say, the lesser of two evils. Unfortunately, that phrase is very common. As someone else has said. I would rather hear Trump rant than to have biden and his cronies continue to rob and steal us blind !
Oh sorry. There I go with another truthism.
Tony
The side that excuses taking home the country’s top secret classified documents. Not only immoral, but treasonous Daniel.
I thought that was Hillary Clinton. The corrupt James Comey proved it. And the corrupt Obama Biden justice department wouldn’t prosecute. And millions of dumb Americans voted for her. Trump was president of the United States and it hasn’t been proven he’s done anything wrong.
Wanda,
Stop believing everything that you hear. Especially, when it’s one – sided.
We will eventually find out the CONSTITUTIONAL interpretation of declassifying government paperwork. I read the constitution, but I majored in construction, not constitutional law. I’m pretty sure that you are far from law with your ph.d.
BTW congress has spent how many MILLIONS of OUR dollars trying to nail Trump ?What’s there record? 0 for a bunch ! Too bad that we can’t sue AA of the members of congress for wasting OUR tax dollars yet once AGAIN !
Tony
Remember when your word was you bond. If you signed a contract you abided by the terms of that contract. Remember when it was taboo to ever talk about killing your babies. What happened to those type of Americans. It’s amazing how far we have declined as a society.
The reason we are at this point is because of liberal democrats shoving this way of life down our throats.
HAPPY WEDNESDAY !!!
pallie,
You are quietly slipping this bombshell into the fracas, commonly known as ‘the election cycle’.
Here we are, once again, nitpicking at the problem du jour. Capitalism brings out the best in people. Then again, mix capitalism with graft, greed and corruption and you have a very screwed up America here in the 21st century. In other words, this pressure cooker has been boiling away for decades – and it just might blow !
It’s amazing to me, just how the public can be fooled all of the time. P.T. Barnum and friends are laughing at us. The circus is in town ladies and gentlemen. We just happen to call it congress.
It doesn’t matter if you’re talking about local government or the feds. IT IS OUR MONEY ! They collect OUR money to run the government. NOT to fleece us !
Wanda has made many good points today. Naturally, I can’t agree with her party choice. While it is true that who ever is at the top, be it mayor or President, there is executive privilege. Our constitution allows that power to not only be challenged, but kept in check. Of course, when everybody is corrupt and are screwing the people, laws and executive orders get passed.
Once again, at the risk of making people think. DRAIN THE SWAMP ! and VOTE THEM ALL OUT !
Keep up the therapy, pallie
Tony
Like to thank Daniel once again for continuing his amazing record of not bringing one single piece of valuable information to any discussion. He does, however, excel at name-calling. Good job.
As far as the student loan forgiveness, I’ll say this once again: if this HELPS the economy in some way, I’ll be happy. If it HURTS the economy in some way, I’ll be UNHAPPY. I am not an economist and do not know enough here to express an opinion (imagine that) on what the results might be. Note: neither are most of the people posting their opinions here. Our government spends a LOT of money on a LOT of things. But it should be noted that the massive debt has gone down in the past couple of years. https://bipartisanpolicy.org/report/deficit-tracker/. And also, the recent infrastructure bill has seen several major firms pledge to build manufacturing facilities in THIS country rather than abroad. This is a major plus for the U.S. worker, right?
And as far as Anthony goes, NOBODY has been more corrupt than the Orange Menace, as recent events have conclusively proven. Nobody ever. Biden? Obama? Not a single scandal of consequence. Just a bunch of made-up bullshit and conspiracy theories that hold no water. So if you are still supporting that jackass, heaven help you. However, at this point, it is clear that you are beyond help. Drain the swamp my ass.
Glad to see you crawl out of your hole to prove how ignorant you are. Now crawl back in. Once again you need to have someone read my post to you. I called no one a name.
HAPPY WEDNESDAY !!!
now ya don it, Freeze. BTW, nice name. I think that fits you. Your brain is frozen.
I shall assume that you own or rent or live somewhere – and it’s not on my ( gov ) expense. Simple math. You gross $1,000 per week, take home $700. Your total bills are $500 per week. That’s pretty good. Some bucks for savings, playing, donating. Then there’s this life crisis. Dental work with the cost exceeding your insurance. $40,000 for implants. You HAVE to make payments in whatever fashion that is agreed upon. Whoopsie ! Your car blew an engine. Do you spend a couple of thou to repair? Couple more thou to replace used? Bunch of bucks for new ? Where oh where is the money coming from. You borrow it – just like our favorite uncle. Then you have more problems and more debt. Again you borrow. Here’s a big difference. We can ‘max out’ our credit. It’s almost impossible for the feds to max out their credit because WE ARE THE BANK !
So, here we are, according to the National Debt Clock, more than NINTY TWO TRILLION DOLLARS in debt – which does not count the recently passed trillion dollar bills. We have liabilities of ONE HUNDRED SEVENTY ONE TRILLION DOLLARS . The clock says that we each owe more than 70 thousand. I know that it’s more because they base their number of tax payers on faulty info. We have fewer tax payers and will have fewer taxpayers when we really get hit with this recession. Not all that complicated but it will give you a HEADACHE.
Now for you choosing wrong once again. Donald Trump was /is a very successful business man. He operates within the law and will test the laws on occasion. No, freeze, he is not my hero. President Trump came along when he realized just how bad the politics are in OUR country. You can not be so naivete as to ignore the past 70 years, freeze. President Trump had NO help the first two years because the RINO Speaker of the House Ryan hated Trump. The dims took control of the house and in walked our gal pelosi – who comes from a long line of politicians which includes the current gov of California. Definitely no help there. The Senate was also a wash for those four years. So, Trump used the power of the office to get things done. Now, assuming that you really are naivete, when Trump started pushing his weight, he pissed off just about EVERYBODY in Washington, D.C. AKA, ‘THE SWAMP ‘. This included the working class civilians who were worried for their cushions – I mean jobs. He squeezed the V.A. and started to turn them around. A great place to hide for a career and you didn’t have to help the Veterans that needed your help. In case you don’t know it, freeze, this country NEVER took care of her Vets until Donald Trump showed up ! Take that to the bank !
I’ll stop there and give all of you Trump haters a chance to absorb, refill and sorry to say, come back for another round. Without name calling – which I avoid. You all make me sick !
DRAIN THE SWAMP ! and VOTE THEM ALL OUT !
Tony
I feel sorry for freeze😂😂😂😂
Daniel,
I’m using ‘you’ as a plural in this reply.
What annoys me about this political game is this. It’s definitely okay for you to have a different opinion than mine. If we were close by, we could discuss politics as we enjoy our adult beverage. But when you take a stand that only comes from FAKE NEWS and other poor sources, then I have a problem with you. You are ready to go to war because you are somebody’s puppet. The icing on the cake is that you can’t stand TRUMP. but I’ll give you odds, that you didn’t send back the extra money that you found in your pocket each week !
Tony
Tony… Why are you addressing me we are in agreement. I don’t use fake news.
The way the government will ‘forgive’ the loans is by paying the lien holder in lieu of the person who took out the loan. Now here is the catch: the government will pay back the loans by merely printing more money. The ultimate result will be increased inflation.
I made the mistake of listening to NPR this morning and heard two left-wing whiners trying to explain why the inability of the borrowers to pay back the loans is everyone’s fault but the borrowers.
HAPPY WEDNESDAY !!!
Vinnie,
It’s good of you to get nauseous from NPR. I, myself switch channels, but can only take ‘so much’ from the ‘dark side’.
Had you continued on with their report, maybe you would have heard them say that as we print more money, the dollar value goes down on the market. Then when we are seeking loans ( bonds ), the used to be favorite nation ( China ) would hold the note – along with all of the other notes. 7.4 TRILLION is held by foreign countries.
Tony
I feel sorry for Wicked Wanda😂😂😂😂 she’s so full of hate.
Daniel,
don’t get your panties in a bunch !
Tony
I’m just having fun.
Daniel,
I am addressing you because you don’t have thin skin. You also apply common sense to this discussion. Had I penned that last letter ( 1:46 ) to freeze, wanda or h, I would be threatened with a severe tongue lashing ! HA !
Me, not looking for fun. Looking to DRAIN THE SWAMP ! and VOTE THEM ALL OUT !
Tony
BTW, HAPPY WEDNESDAY !!!
It’s tough dealing with the uninformed. Things that are general knowledge to even the casual political observer are not known by some who participate here. It just makes them look foolish.
No dude. Just utter disdain for people like you. Look it up if you don’t know what it means and how it differs from hatred.
Like you said, Stu, it’s a fraud. It’s lying Biden buying votes, because he knows he needs them. Not a dollar of forgiveness of my taxes.
On the lighter side I saw this on Tucker Carlson last night.
HARD TO SEPARATE PARODY FROM REALITY
If you don’t like being mugged then you’re the problem
Violent criminals deserve our compassion and respect. This fall stand strong for progressive values.
Too much freedom is a bad thing. Get your IRS audit today.
Open the jails, open the borders, close the schools. Vote progressive this November.
Don’t let the radical right put our neighborhood street gangs behind bars. Support Joe Biden and progressive candidates.
Protect pregnant men from climate discrimination.
Mother Nature is racist. End environmental racism. NOW!
Paid For By Citizens For Sanity Inc.
And this thought of mine
Liberals are rarely held accountable just like Lousy home plate umpires
PS Good stuff Daniel and Tony
Why is it that, in this thread, ALL of the personal attacks and name calling are coming from Tony and Daniel?
YOU are a joke !
Why don’t you try to join the conversation. You don’t because you can’t defend the Biden policies.
I feel sorry for bogart he doesn’t have a clue.
Don’t bother H. I am going to NOT engage anymore with these bozos. They are incapable of having a reasonable discussion without name calling, personal attacks, deflect (B-b-but her emails) and repeating of the MAGA crap and conspiracies. They can talk to themselves and pat themselves on their backs. I am so done and have bigger fish to fry with the elections here coming up and training poll greeters and observers for the Dems.
Thank you Wanda. I was going to reply to them until I read your post to me. I, too, will do my best to ignore them.
Don’t bother H. I am going to NOT engage anymore with these bozos. They are incapable of having a reasonable discussion without name calling, personal attacks, deflect (B-b-but her emails) and repeating of the MAGA crap and conspiracies. They can talk to themselves and pat themselves on their backs. I am so done and have bigger fish to fry with the elections here coming up and training poll greeters and observers for the Dems.
Yes Wanda there is a God😇
It’s tuff to engage when you can’t defend your point of view. You will be missed.😂😂😂😂
Wanda…your Credentials and Resume should give You an M.A. as a Byko drag queen pole dancing tutor.
Do You wake up shrieking, reliving lessons of past horrors of Your Parents {RIP] surviving the Death Camps.
Keep working for Biden and the Dims. They are the True Fascists who want to bring them back.
I don’t know who you are, and I really don’t want to know you.
Attacking Wanda is bad enough, but a cheap shot of her parents is beneath even you.
Try civility and stick to the topic.
Tony
Whoever it is, it’s sick!
I got one for You, Chief Bullpussy.
My reference was to the challenges and circumstances of her childhood that may impact her World View.
Growing as a half-breed in the White Ghetto made You the Sewer Genius that You purport to be.
Wanda nailed it in her characterization of You, Tony ” a Man with Shit for Brains.”
still HAPPY WEDNESDAY !!!
guys and gal,
I use this greeting as a gesture of civility. I don’t know you. I may or may not want to know you, But I certainly don’t have any ill will towards any of you. I just consider the source. Apparently, with all of my travels, I missed out cruel and viscous Philly people can get. With closed minds, you attack – ruthlessly at times. That’s okay. I’m not thin skinned and I DO consider the source.
Wanda, your speech was not that good and it surely didn’t deserve a second time around. I sincerely hope that you do well in your new town and that the new recruits do a superb job of greeting ? ) and observing the voters. Next important job at the poll is training people to be judges of election and poll workers. In your new state, does the aspiring voter have to show I.D. ? Are they even asked for I.D. ? You do know that in PA, a new face at a polling place can be challenged, don’t you ?
BTW When you were writing your reply, were you looking in the mirror ? You three are the ones that throw the stones. Two of you can get pretty foul and obviously, one of you most definitely has a ‘potty mouth’.
You’re still off of my Christmas card list .
Tony
This is what I believe many don’t see: While they are kept focused on everything Trump, our country is collapsing into a dystopian utopia from the Biden Regime’s socialists’ policies. And if they keep control on Capitol Hill in November we will all be languishing in it. No favorites.
Wow – 43 comments! That’s got to be a record here on this forum! Good job, guys. And ladies!
Too much personal sniping for my taste. It is alright to disagree, but let’s keep it civil.
AGREE.
HAPPY THURSDAY !!!
you without a name ( can’t get much braver than that )
yo douche !
thank you for the compliment. If you were worthy, you would say, “wop A ho”, but the low life that you are, stick to half breed. BTW in the ’50s & early ’60s, there were no ghettos in Philly. But since you’re afixed to my heritage, Port Richmond still had horses on my street in the ’50s. Every year, the one neighbor hung is bucks ( deers ) by their racks from his porch roof.
You did a poor job of searching for Wanda’s feelings for her present while you attack her past. I’m sure that Wanda is a stronger person for family’s flight from oppression.
As for you, definitely no Christmas card. Not even one for your favorite – HALLOWEEN .
Tony
To address the question you ask, I disagree and I think it will marginally help the democrats. This is because nobody will be seeing a higher tax bill because of it. We’ve already spent the money–the schools have it–it’s just a question of, in the future, how much of it will be paid back. That is why economists are “scoring” this the same way they evaluate the economic effect of a tax cut. People are just getting to keep more of what they make instead of paying it to the government. If and when this causes a higher tax bill, that is when folks will be motivated.
Meanwhile, the student loan problem is real for lots of people. The desire for relief was not made up. The debt overhang does make people postpone things like buying a home, starting a family or starting business. It is, for them, what you’d call a kitchen table issue. Targeted subsidies, such as for farmers to keep food prices high for the rest of us (doubled under Trump), or export subsidies, or special tax breaks (such as the “carried interest” loophole for investment bankers excised from the Inflation Reduction Act) tend to secure the vote of the recipients, while merely offending other people’s abstract notions of how government should operate. I doubt very much that this subsidy will be seen as some sort of last straw highly motivating them to go the polls when they otherwise wouldn’t.
Certainly politics have shown us that voters really don’t care all that much about deficits in the abstract. There were a lot of reasons people didn’t vote for Trump, but I doubt that the fact that his administration increased the deficit more than the entire 8 years of Obama, plus the last 4 years of Bush, was high on the list. The increase in the IRS budget to improve collection and enforcement wasn’t celebrated–it was attacked–although the gap between taxes paid and taxes owed estimated to be $600 billion annually, a gap which if closed, could more than cover the ten year “cost” of not collecting the loans. And, of course, the great majority of the uncollected taxes are attributable to high income tax payers (not the beneficiaries of the loan forgiveness which is limited to those who make less than $125k, and 90% of whom make less than $75k.)This gap is paid for by the higher taxes on the rest of us who do not cheat on our taxes. So that’s what, $6 trillion in uncollected taxes over ten years, three times the GNP of Spain? But everybody hates the IRS, so we happily pay this cost out the fear that the IRS will come after us and find a few hundred more due in taxes.
People do care about inflation/the economy, but this loan forgiveness is unlikely to have much effect. The big effect was the suspension of payment (begun under Trump) which put additional disposable income in people’s pockets. Its continuation would be inflationary. Since the suspension will end at about the same time that the forgiveness kicks in, the resumed payments will take more cash out the economy than the forgiveness will put in. In other words, the limited forgiveness was designed not to be inflationary. What AOC wanted would have been harmful. If inflation balloons, for whatever the cause, as opposed to somewhat flattening which currently seems to be the case, that will hurt the dems. But if so, it seems unlikely that it would be due the loan forgiveness.
I also think the issue is somewhat generational. We old folks here, like every previous generation, rail against “kids today” and tend to believe that back in our day, folks were more moral, responsible and civic minded. While older folks always vote more, they also tend to be more set in their views, with policy blips probably not making a lot of difference in how they vote. I don’t think it is going to cause a surge in voting of people who were going to stay home. It’s not the kind of outrage that makes someone who is otherwise apathetic get out and vote.
At the end of the day, voting, especially by those who would otherwise stay home, is primarily emotional. The thing is, “slacker baristas” as Sen. Cruz called them, can vote too. Being young, usually they don’t–but my guess is they are more likely to now, not only because they got some goodies, but also because being called names might make them want to do something about it. I mean, if you do have a degree in “underwater basket-weaving” I expect you are defensive enough about it to strike back in self-justification. And I think that motivation might be stronger than, “darn, another special interest giveaway.”
So, I don’t think this issue will change much, except with a possible advantage to the democrats.
Disagreement is welcome here. Joe is counting on people who feel like you.