When Pence defied Trump

Thursday was the day for Mike Pence’s turn in the spotlight, but the former vice president did not appear before the House Jan. 6 committee. Was he in the undisclosed location he was ushered to on Jan. 6?

Vice President Mike Pence in his office, before being removed to another location

I don’t know whether his absence is a reflection of continuing, if misplaced, loyalty to Donald J. Trump, or a move to preserve his standing as a possible political replacement for his former boss. In any event, his ears must have been burning, in a pleasurable way, as he was name checked as courageous by various members of Congress.

The committee wants to prove Trump put Pence under pressure to not certify the results of the 2020 election. It succeeded.

In any event, there were stand-ins for the absent former No. 2.

For a change, the committee started out with a haymaker, in the form of conservative legal authority, and retired appellate judge, J. Michael Luttig, who hit Trump’s acolytes like a tornado ripping through a trailer park.

Had Pence followed Trump’s orders to delay or stop the certification of the election, the Constitution would have been “supremely violated,” said Luttig, who spoke haltingly, almost as if he had to push apples through a pipe.

“I would have laid my body across the road before I would let the vice president overturn the 2020 election,” said Luttig.

According to Pence lawyer Greg Jacob, the vice president knew from the jump he did not have the authority to interfere with the vote count.

If Pence wore a white hat, the black hats were worn by Trump, and by lawyer John Eastman, who developed a theory that the XII Amendment to the Constitution contained language that permitted a vice president to block the certification of the vote.

Luttig and Jacob both tore that apart, as did Pence (on video). White House lawyer Eric Herschmann (on video) told Eastman, ”Are you out of your f’n mind?”

Over time, testimony proved that Trump pressured Pence time and time again to interfere with the vote count. Most of the legal minds agreed Pence had no such power. Even Fox News host and Trump loyalist, Sean Hannity, in a text suggested  that Trump’s action would cause the White House legal staff to resign, and that would bring disaster.

But Trump did not urge the Jan. 6 crowd to go after Pence. Trump said he would be “very disappointed” in Pence if he failed to act,  but he did not urge them to act. They got that idea on its own, after Pence announced he would not interfere with the vote count. This infuriated the mopes who believed Trump’s lie that he had won the election. He did not, as the committee proved with the testimony of Trump’s inner circle,

It was a moment of political courage by Pence, yes, but how much actual danger? Members of the committee made much about the gallows that had been brought to the Capitol by the Trumpsters chanting, “Hang Mike Pence.”

The makeshift Lincoln Logs gallows at the Capitol

That gallows looked like something made of Lincoln Logs, with a noose that seemed to be wrapped around a beer can attached to a beam that didn’t look sturdy enough to hold a man’s weight.

And had the crowd actually laid hands on Pence, do you think his armed Secret Service detail would have let him come to harm?

I don’t.

The same holds true for those who were looking for Nancy Pelosi. Would armed guards have allowed her to come to harm?

That aside, the Republican lawyers agreed that Trump’s demands on Pence were unconstitutional, and probably illegal. Key word — probably.

Trump’s actions were “the centerpiece of the plot to overturn the 2020 election,” said Luttig, omitting the opinion that such action would be sedition.

Once the riot had begun, instead of tweeting for his goons followers to stop, Trump instead tweeted an attack on Pence.

“That was pouring gasoline on the fire,” said press aide Sarah Matthews.

What the committee has proved so far — all in the words of Trump’s inner circle — Trump was told without question that he had lost the election, and that Pence had no authority to do anything about the vote.

And none of that changed Trump’s actions. 

23 thoughts on “When Pence defied Trump”

  1. Hey Stu,

    Reading this from a cafe in Curaçao, which makes these proceedings seem all the more fantastical. I know that, legally, the burden of proof is high, but, on a visceral level, do we really even need the Jan. 6th hearings to confirm what was going on and the intent behind it?


    1. PlAce dropper. 😆 The bar is high, and should be. The court of public opinion is different. Despite what the D.C. pundits say, nothing has been “explosive,” but the slow taking apart of Trump’s lies will have impact in the long run. I hope.

      1. I think (and hope, as you do) that for a small number of Independents and some “old fashioned” Republicans, there will be an impact. They MAY realize that this man has no regard for our Country, our Constitution, or for actual human beings. That he’s a power hungry meglomaniac. They MAY realize that his henchman, refusing to obey our laws and defying subpoenas are cowardly unethical, and some are criminal. But they MAY still vote for those people, as Bill Barr will. Often I feel that it is just to late for many in our Country to return to “normalcy”, to look for, then actually accept FACTS. To actually care about morals and decency.

        1. Naomi,
          First, see my reply to Stu’s new article, ‘a word to the Trump dead enders’.
          Trump, like many geniuses, does not tolerate us mere mortals well. Geniuses certainly don’t like rules and as a matter of fact, think that rules do not apply.
          Having met the man, as did Stu, I have a different feeling or concern for Trump. It may be possible that he coined the phrase, “Bull in a china shop !”. Sadly along those lines, a person of Trump’s caliper does not take advice. Could that be why he is a Billionaire ?
          Often, here and other places, Had I been an advisor to President Trump, I probably would not have lasted very long. I have this talent for telling people things that they don’t want to hear. Like this letter. When someone like Trump says, that’s enough, you better believe that you don’t dare cross that line. Of course, that line applies to everyone but me.

          1. I too have a talent for telling people things they do not want to hear. You seem like a nice person. Really. But you are delusional.

    I watched ( reluctantly ) most of the today’s show. True, The judge and the lawyers all had their can of gas as someone struck a match. That would be called, “burned in effigy’.
    Just for a refresher, I just looked at the XII Amendment. It doesn’t say anything that would help former President Trump. I wonder if anyone within the circle tried to show Trump the XII amendment. If it was me, the diplomat, I would have used sheets of white cardboard with 12 inch letters. It would have went downhill – FAST – from there.

    1. You are in agreement with the witnesses, live and on tape. The guy who invented the crazy interpretation didn’t even believe it. But Trump is not moved by facts and reality.

  3. Trump lost the election because he would not let his campaign staff encourage mail in voting. Trump was told by his campaign manager (Stepien) to have republicans promote and use this voting process. Trump was bullheaded and refused to validate this process. He would have won if he promoted mail in voting. He is the victim of his own policy. Remember, Covid was the reason for the push for mail in voting. Mail in voting is here to stay, get use to it. Crashing the capital was criminal no matter how you down play it. Police officers were attacked with flag poles, fire extinguishers, mace and other instruments of crime. This behavior should not be excused as a right to protest. Pence did what was expected of him. He should of called out the president for his critical remarks. Let’s hope voters in the future have many options to cast legal votes.

    1. HAPPY FRIDAY !!!
      You are correct, sir. In addition, Harrisburg took the same position, which was filtered down to Chester County. Actually, I would think that it went all through the United States.
      What is amazing to me is this. All of the geniuses are captured together in Washington D.C. and probably every state capital. Can you say swamp ? To have such a closed mind as to think that people would not welcome mail-in ballots is so archaic. This proves to me, all along, that the dims have been outshopping the reps at all of the colleges. They recruit kids, fresh out of college and maybe the certificates for the passing the bar are still wet. These kids out hustled the republican party ! It’s that simple . Was a lesson learned ?

    2. Yes. I found the whole anti-mail-in ballot thing puzzling. Historically, mail-in ballots always leaned heavily Republican. And, of course, all military ballots are mail-in. Absentee ballots tended to be used by older people who didn’t want to stand in line, or retired folks who were traveling. In the long-run, I do not see how restricting mail-in ballots helps Republicans at all. In fact, I expect it hurts GOP prospects. Without mail-in ballots, Bush would have lost Florida (and the presidency), which he won by only some 500+ votes. As of election day, Gore had 200 more votes than Bush. It was only the votes that came in after the election that put Bush over the top. And to think, Gore, as VP presiding over the Senate, could have simply rejected the Florida electors and become president. Who knew? And why didn’t Giuliani and Eastman to explain that to him?

  4. Quotes for the these times:

    These are the times that try men’s(?) souls.
    Thomas Paine

    It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was……
    Charles Dickens

    Now is the time for all good men (whatever) to come to the aid of the party.
    Charles E. Weller

    What difference does it make at this time?
    HiIlary Clinton

    With respect for the integrity of the investigation, with an insistence on the truth and with concern about statements made and actions taken by these Members, I must reject the recommendations of Representatives Banks and Jordan to the Select Committee,”
    Nancy Pelosi

  5. If politics were a game show it would be titled “YOU BET YOUR DICK!” Trump is history, get over it. We got over Hillary, and she makes DT look like a saint.

  6. Yes, Trump is history along with low unemploment and low, if any inflation, to name just a few. That’s what I meant, Vince, assuming you’re tagging me🤔. Many here, over his presidency, have noted his personality flaws, yet happily accepted his effective policies. And then there are those who just hated. That old adage, .. ‘don’t know what you got till it’s gone’, is hurting everyone. We knew what we got with DJT.

    1. Good post. Agreed, 100%. Just a couple of other things that are now “history”: The USA being not only non-dependent but the top exporter of oil on Earth. And naturally, the border wall was going full-tilt boogie. Just look at it now. Many people these days seem to be mentally unbalanced due to their vile but inexplicable hatred of the great #45.

    2. I voted for him and would again. But he was doomed to fail the BIG test: avoiding the Left, which HATES any pol who does not toe the socialist line. Thus, he is history. What you are witnessing is the Left’s desire to mangle the corpse after slaying it.

      1. As of right now if it where between DeSantis and Trump, I’d vote for the Governor. I just don’t agree with all the right dumping on Trump since this trial began. We got two loser republicans and nine leftist as judge and jury. And the only thing missing from the media is pom-poms.

  7. Stu, you ask rhetorical questions about the actual danger to Pence and Pelosi. Given the extent of injuries to Capital Police and D.C. police I do believe that both were in grave danger. There has not been much published about the injuries to the Police, but seek and ye shall find. About 140 law enforcement agents were SERIOUSLY injured by the angry mob. “One officer has two cracked ribs and two smashed spinal discs and another was stabbed with a metal fence stake, to name some of the injuries.” Several had concussions. I have no doubt that had they gotten to Pence he would have been hurt, if not hanged, as would Pelosi. Not sure why you are confident that the Secret Service could not have been overpowered.

    You sure got it right when you inadvertently on purpose (is that a thing?) called Trump’s followers “goons”. Mafia Dons are famous for giving orders without expressly stating them.

    Here’s a rhetorical question. Do you (or anyone) believe there would have been a January 6th Insurrection if Trump had conceded the election on the morning of January 6th?

      Sad to say, Law Enforcement personnel were injured. One died from , I believe, a heart attack which I would attribute to this officer’s part in the containment of the mob. To be fair, people on the other side were injured.
      As for the PROTECTION of the Vice President , Speaker of the House and Senate Majority leader. The secret Service is not your average rent a cop. They are all trained and armed and their ONE DUTY in LIFE is to protect .
      The cops on the line were not brandishing their weapons. Mot until the mob was inside the the building (s) and threatened to enter the chamber. You may remember that a ( so- called ) rioter was killed by a Sergeant of the Capitol Police. There is no action being taken on this sad catastrophe.
      As for 1/6, the riots, the insurrection, the mayhem. None of it should have taken place. Say what you will about Trump. Maybe you think about just how far left this country has come in the last few years, with all of the riots, mass murders, crime and just plain hatred that has come from the extremists on the left, unnoticed by ALL government officials and supported by people that want to destroy this country.
      What was this country like when you came here ? Have you done anything to try to make it a better world America ? Is it starting to remind you of your birthplace ?

    2. As to danger, read Anthony Clark. The Secret Service would NOT have allowed a lynching. Please.
      As to the riot/inaurrection, no, it would not have happened had Trump conceded. He wanted a huge turnout on 1/6. I have yet to see any evidence he called for violence. His 1/6 remarks were the opposite.
      Btw, you are one of the Left people I referenced.

      1. Stu,
        You put a lot of stock into his EXPLICIT words. I repeat, Mafia Dons give orders without explicit words. Juries convict sometimes based on purely “circumstantial” evidence. (or aquit despite an abundance of evidence). You admit the insurrection would not have happened if Trump had conceded. I’ll admit Trump did not explicity call for violence. Yet I believe he was DIRECTLY responsible for that tragic day.

        1. Yes, I pay a lot of attention to actual words. Not meaning devined by opponents.
          And take a look at FBI conviction rates of Mafia chietains. On balance, pretty poor.
          Was Bernie Sanders responsible for one of his fans attacking GOP congressmen?

        2. Naomi,
          Just how many, if any, members of the Mothers and Fathers Italian Association do you know ? If any. Brownstein. Doesn’t sound like you came from Italy, but then again, you called me delusional. Maybe so, maybe a dreamer. I remember when the government was FOR the people. I remember when people would greet cops as friends, not enemies. I remember when a whole lot more. Does that make me delusional or a dreamer ? What about you, Naomi. You seem like a nice person. Really.

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